The Science of Scaling · 14 May 2025
How to Cold Call When 90% Hang Up (Roleplay)
These are notes on the conversation, checked against its transcript. The episode itself has the full discussion.
In brief
Host Mark Roberge and producer Matthew Brown run a roleplay in which Matthew tries to sell a $20 pizza to a chiropractor's office, then Roberge breaks down the cold-call framework Sam Nelson teaches in a Harvard Business School sales class. The framework opens with a bad-time question, a short pitch, and a request for a meeting, then stays in an objection loop until the prospect agrees or hangs up. The episode argues that a cold call is a game of seconds, that most calls end in hang-ups even for good reps, and that reps should sound authentic rather than polished.
For founders
- Frame a cold call's goal as booking a meeting rather than closing a sale, and expect to handle several objections before you get one.
- Founders who feel uneasy about cold selling should remember they are solving the prospect's problem, not protecting a friendship.
- Mark Roberge says persistence is acceptable when you believe in the product and will not sell a prospect something they don't need.
- Expect most cold calls to end in a hang-up, since Roberge says even good callers are hung up on 80 to 90% of the time.
For revenue leaders
- Give cold callers a short, repeatable script for the opening seconds, then train them to re-ask for the meeting after every objection.
- Plan for the best SDRs to handle three or four objections on average before booking a meeting, and prepare responses to a short list of common objections.
- Coach reps to sound nervous and authentic rather than like a salesperson or radio host, because Roberge argues prospects then feel bad for them and don't hang up.
- Expect SDRs to usually sit in the seat for about a year before they get promoted, according to Roberge.
What was said 14, most useful first
After each objection, handle it and re-ask for the meeting, and keep doing this until the prospect agrees or hangs up. Listen
Roberge describes an objection flywheel: the rep asks for the meeting, listens to the objection, handles it, and asks again. He says he never lets the prospect out of the loop until they hang up. He credits the simple script with freeing mental energy to listen and respond to objections.
“So I'm in this flywheel, and I'm never gonna let the person out of the flywheel until they hang up.”
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The best SDRs and cold callers typically handle three or four objections before they book a meeting. Listen
Roberge says the data shows that the best SDRs and cold callers, on average, handle three or four objections before booking a meeting. He mentions this while describing the objection flywheel.
“And the data shows that the best SDRs and cold callers out there, on average, will handle three or four of those before they book a meeting.”
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Most cold-call objections can be grouped into a short list of five to 10, so reps can prepare responses after a few weeks. Listen
Roberge says that when you study cold calls, 90% of objections simplify to a list of five to 10, with examples such as I don't have time, I don't have the money, and it's not healthy. He says that once a rep has done this for a week, the objections become familiar, and that it gets easier with weeks of practice.
“In fact, like when you study these things, 90 % of the objections will be simplified to a five to 10 list.”
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Cold callers should sound nervous and authentic rather than polished, because prospects feel sorry for them and do not hang up. Listen
Roberge advises against sounding like a salesperson or a radio host. He says he channels a nervous, skinny 14-year-old kid, and that people feel bad for the caller and don't want to hang up on them. He tells reps to ignore their instinct about what a salesperson should sound like.
“You don't want to sound like a salesperson. You don't want to sound like a radio host. You want to sound like uncomfortable, nervous.”
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Open a cold call by asking whether you caught the prospect at a bad time, because the answer is only yes or no. Listen
Roberge says he always starts with this question because there are only two possible answers. He says the reply does not change what he says next, so the rep does not need to focus on it at that point. He adds that about 90% of the time the answer is yes, and the other 10% the prospect has a minute.
“So the first thing that I did was I always asked the same question, which is, did I catch you at a bad time? And the reason why is because there's only two answers, yes or no.”
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After the bad-time question, say you will be brief and deliver the same short pitch whatever the prospect answered. Listen
Roberge says he follows the opening question with I'll be brief and then gives the same elevator pitch regardless of the reply. He then makes the ask. In the pizza roleplay the ask was to send a $20 pizza.
“Okay, I'll be brief. So I deliver that same elevator pitch and then I ask to deliver the pizza.”
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In business-to-business cold calls, ask directly for a short introductory call and then ask about the prospect's schedule. Listen
Roberge says the pizza ask translates in a business-to-business setting into a request to set up an introductory call. He follows it with a question about the prospect's schedule to move toward a time.
“So in a more like business to business setting, that's what I'd say. So I'd love to set up an introductory call. How is your schedule?”
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Treat the goal of a cold call as booking a meeting, not making the sale. Listen
Roberge tells listeners that the pizza exercise is a stand-in for booking a meeting, and that a rep who is good at this books about one meeting a day. He says the rep is not there to make the prospect like them, but to get the next step.
“The folks that are listening here, you're not selling a $20 pizza. You're trying to book a meeting.”
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Keep a script for the opening of a cold call, because the first seconds decide the call and new reps need something repeatable. Listen
Roberge says he normally dislikes scripts but recommends one for the cold connect for two reasons. The first 5 to 10 seconds carry the most weight, and cold callers are usually new to sales, in an entry-level role he calls the hardest in sales. A repeatable script lets the rep focus on listening and handling objections.
“I hate scripts. But in this case, we kind of have to use them. It's such an intense moment.”
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Even good cold callers are hung up on 80 to 90% of the time, and top performers book about one meeting a day. Listen
Roberge says that if you are good at cold calling you get hung up on 80 to 90% of the time, and that if you are good you book one meeting a day. He compares it to a baseball hitter who fails most of the time, and says reps should expect the hang-ups.
“If you're good, you get hung up on 80 to 90 % of the time.”
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SDRs usually have to sit in the role for about a year before they get promoted. Listen
Roberge describes the SDR role as the entry-level seat in sales and says that SDRs usually stay in it for a year before promotion. He describes the role as the hardest in sales.
“And SDRs usually have to sit in the seat for a year before they get promoted.”
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A class of 90 students cold-calling local businesses to sell a $20 pizza produced five and six sales in two sessions. Listen
Roberge describes a Harvard Business School class in which students get call scripts and lists of local businesses in the last 15 minutes of class. He says the first class sold five pizzas and the second sold six, with 90 students calling for 15 minutes, and he estimates over a thousand calls were made.
“We did it yesterday the first class sold five pizzas and the second class sold six pizzas”
Founders should see a cold call as solving the prospect's problem rather than protecting a relationship with them. Listen
Roberge compares sales to a doctor who gives hard news because the doctor's mission is to solve your problem. He says a product founder is working on important things and should put solving the problem ahead of being friends with everyone, even though there will be resistance.
“You're not there for a relationship. You're not there to like. make friends with this person and protect the like a friendship. You're here to like solve a problem for them and in the process selling whatever your product is.”
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Persistence in cold selling is acceptable when you believe in the product and won't sell prospects something they don't need. Listen
Roberge says he is fine with persistent selling as long as he believes in the product, believes he will help the prospect, and only sells something they need after uncovering their problem. He says he used this approach about 20 years ago when HubSpot was a no-name company, and that the customers' businesses accelerated after buying.
“as long as I believe in my product and that I'm going to help this person, and as long as I believe that as I get to know them and uncover their problem, I'm not going to sell them something they don't need, then I'm okay.”
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