[Un]Churned · 2 Sep 2026 · From the week of 31 August
80% of VP Roles Are Never Posted. Here's How to Find Them ft. Andy Mowat (Whispered)
These are notes on the conversation, checked against its transcript. The episode itself has the full discussion.
In brief
Andy Mowat, founder and CEO of Whispered, joins host Josh Schachter, SVP of strategy and go-to-market development at Gainsight, to explain how senior go-to-market and customer success leaders find their next role. They cover why senior roles are rarely posted, how VC and PE talent partners differ from executive recruiters, backdoor referrals, treating a job search like an outbound sales funnel, and how comp and level are negotiated. Andy's main argument is that networks and specificity work better than applying through public job boards. He also predicts that AI-native companies may face a churn wave in their third year.
For founders
- Andy said senior roles are rarely posted publicly, estimating that virtually no C-level roles are posted and about 20% of VP roles.
- He said companies avoid posting senior roles partly because job descriptions give insight to competitors, and because a public posting can draw thousands of mostly unqualified applicants, so recruiters handle them instead.
- Andy said AI-native companies in their second year may face churn in their third year, once early contracts run out and customers decide whether to renew.
- Andy said that about half the time, compensation on a posted senior role is flexible, and that scope matters more than the posted pay.
- Andy said candidates should name a specific role, company scale and company type when approaching talent partners, because vague searches are hard for them to help with.
For revenue leaders
- Andy said not to apply through the front door and to use internal referral systems and backdoor introductions to mid-level employees instead.
- Andy said the more specific a candidate is about the role, scale and company type they want, the easier it is for others to help them.
- Andy said sending a target list of 20 to 40 companies lets contacts make loose-connection introductions they would not otherwise make.
- Josh suggested sending an individual thank-you note to each panel member that references one comment they made, and Andy agreed, comparing it to an AE's follow-up after a call.
- Andy said not to negotiate comp until the hiring side has fallen for the candidate, and to focus on scope first.
What was said 27, most useful first
Andy estimates that 75 to 80% of director-level roles are posted publicly, but only about 20% of VP roles and virtually no C-level roles are. Listen
Andy gave these as his own estimates of how often senior go-to-market roles are posted publicly. He said the share drops sharply as seniority rises. He tied this to the broader point that senior searches are run through networks and recruiters.
“I estimate that at the director level, 75 to 80% are posted, but you flip that to 20% posted at the VP level and at the C level, virtually nothing is posted.”
Applying through the front door rarely works, and cited a Whispered member in CS who applied to 200 roles without using a backdoor and had little success. Listen
Andy said recruiters often spend only about three seconds on each application. He said that unless a candidate is an absolute perfect fit, they will struggle, and AI screening may filter out even strong fits. He said the member should have used the referral route.
“I think the key thing that people just don't get is do not apply through the front door.”
Roughly half the time compensation on a posted role is flexible, especially if the candidate is the right person. Listen
Andy said many candidates pass on roles because the posted comp looks wrong, but he has seen the recruiter confirm comp is flexible. He said most comp numbers are wrong. He described sending benchmarks to a C-level executive after members declined roles, and the executive agreed and went back to the recruiting team.
“But the other 50% of people like of course if it's a better person I can be flexible.”
Andy estimated that a candidate can level up in roughly 15 to 20% of cases, compared with comp being negotiable about half the time. Listen
Andy said comp is negotiable about half the time, while level is negotiable less often. He said that in an interview at Carta, he proposed changes to an org structure that were discussed for a week, which can make a role bigger. He said that in the current market, level-up requests are hard and candidates need to be realistic.
“I figure scope is like, level is probably like a 15, 20%.”
Some AI companies post certain roles for three days and then take them down, which he said is due to federal contracting rules. Listen
Andy said he learned this after calling friends about OpenAI postings, and that a smart candidate would build a scraper to catch them. When Josh found an Anthropic head of CS role posted, Andy bet it would be down within a week. Josh checked and said it was still up after about a week.
“They post them for three days and then they take them down, right?”
A senior role at a top AI company would draw about 5,000 applications, of which about 95% would be unqualified, which is one reason senior roles are not posted. Listen
Andy used a CS role at a top AI company that he said was being discussed inside Whispered as an example. He said a public posting would flood the recruiting team, which would then have to spend time filtering. He said this is also a brand issue for the company when it rejects thousands of applicants.
“If that was posted online there would be 5,000 applications for it. 95% would be unqualified.”
Andy predicted that many AI-native companies in their second year will face a churn wave in year three, as contracts run out and customers who had not yet had a bad experience start to churn. Listen
Andy said customers are still buying because they have not had a bad experience and their contracts have not run out. He said funded AI companies are hiring CMOs and CROs but not heads of CS, which makes the market harder for CS leaders. He cited the view that companies churn in year three, saying it came from Nick or someone else.
“I think a lot of these AI companies are in year two and they're about to face it.”
Listen to the episode Retention & customer success Link to this
CS leaders should focus on whether their manager understands the function and gives air cover, not on the title of the person they report to. Listen
Andy said Gainsight did not have its CCO report to the CEO, and that many people over-index on reporting lines. He said the better questions are whether the manager understands customer success, whether they can provide air cover at the right times, and how decisions are made across CS. He said a CRO who decides across GTM can be better than a CCO reporting to the CEO.
“I think a lot of people over index on what's the title of the person I report to.”
Companies have internal referral systems where employees can see all open roles and submit a candidate themselves. Listen
Andy described this as the backdoor route. He said candidates should use it and not rely on the public application form. He presented this as a standard feature of companies.
“there are internal referral systems at any company. You can see all the roles and you can submit somebody yourself.”
Candidates do not need to reach the hiring manager, because mid-level employees at a company can open doors to hiring managers. Listen
Andy said mid-level people are often in Slack with the hiring manager and can pass along a profile directly. He gave the example of backdooring to mid-level RevOps people while interviewing at Carta, who helped him understand the company. He also gave an example of a revenue leader at a large company being connected to a mid-level person at an AI company.
“No, you can backdoor to anybody at the company and be able to get in as well too.”
VC and PE talent partners work to connect their portfolio companies with the right recruiters, rather than running searches themselves. Listen
Andy distinguished talent partners at VCs and PEs from third-party executive search firms such as Cole Group and Heidrick. He said talent partners know the top recruiters, so a candidate who gets on their radar can be introduced to the right firms. He said that a strong candidate may be shared with a Google group of talent partners.
“those people's job is less to actually run the search search and more to make connections between their portfolio companies and the right recruiters.”
When approaching a talent partner, a candidate should state their exact role, scale, motion and company type, not just say they want something interesting. Listen
Andy said a generic request such as wanting an operational role gives the talent partner nothing to work with. He gave an example of a CCO describing the scale they operated at, the motion they are strong in, and their focus on developer tool companies. He said with that level of clarity, talent partners can name companies that fit and recruiters will engage.
“hey, I am a CCO that does it from this scale to this scale.”
An A-plus candidate can tell seven to ten talent partners and a few recruiters they are searching, and the market's open roles will come to them. Listen
Andy said this works best for candidates who are at the right time. He contrasted it with a CRO he knows who is in a seat and quietly looking, noting that once you put yourself into that world whispers start happening really fast. Josh added that word can travel from recruiter to board member to CEO.
“you'll just Simply say to 7 to 10 talent partners and a couple different recruiters.”
Talent partners are in a shared Google group of about 340 talent partners, so one conversation can spread quickly through the market. Listen
Andy said the group is closed, but his company is regularly posted in it. He said that if a talent partner enjoys a candidate, they may send the profile to the group, and other talent partners may then reach out. He used this to explain why candidates in seat need to be careful about who they talk to.
“There is a Google group of 340 talent partners that all communicate with each other.”
Recruiters take calls from talent partners because talent partners are a source of about 50% of recruiters' business. Listen
Andy said talent partners refer portfolio company searches to recruiters, which is why recruiters take their calls. He suggested that a candidate can ask a talent partner for other recruiters to speak with.
“because that's where they get on average 50% of their business.”
The more specific a candidate is about their target role, the easier it is for others to help them, which he called the irony of ironies. Listen
Andy said many candidates believe being open to anything will produce more leads. He argued the opposite: a specific role, title and company type gives contacts a hook to act on. He gave the example of his own last search, in which he pitched himself as having run RevOps at three unicorns and being strong in high velocity, low ACV businesses.
“The irony of ironies is the more specific you are, the easier it is to help people.”
Sending a list of 20 to 30 target companies lets contacts make loose-connection introductions they would not otherwise make. Listen
Andy said that when he sent his target company list in his last search, a contact he had never met knew the CEO of Zapier, which led to a conversation with that company's CRO. He said this is how he first moved into CS operations, when a contact introduced him to John Hurstein.
“I literally would send out, here are the 20 or 30 companies that I'm interested in.”
Candidates should build relationships with people who already hold the role they want and ask them to pass along recruiter approaches. Listen
Andy said he called people who held the role he wanted, not to work for them but to ask them to forward recruiter calls for that role. He said he runs a community of about 150 top RevOps people in which members pass along roles they are not looking for. He said Whispered is building a sister community for CS leaders on the same philosophy.
“if a recruiter hits you up, send it to me, right?”
To stay in touch with talent partners and recruiters, a candidate should ask what roles they are working on and how their network could help. Listen
Andy said candidates often do not know when to reach out again after one conversation. He suggested asking the contact about roles they are seeking that the candidate's network could fill. He said when a recruiter comes with a role that is not a fit, the candidate should offer someone from their network instead.
“Try asking them, hey, are there any interesting roles that you're looking for that I can help with my network?”
A job search can be run like an outbound sales funnel, with personalized sequences aimed at hiring managers and the people around them, and Andy agreed. Listen
Josh described using sequencing tools such as Smartlead for email and Dripify for LinkedIn connections and commenting on posts. He said he used ZoomInfo or a contractor to get email addresses for hiring managers and the influential people around the target roles. He said candidates should treat the search like they are the best AE in the world. Andy said this was exactly right for the top of the funnel.
“like just treat it like you're the world's best ae.”
The interview process maps to a sales funnel: the recruiter call qualifies, the hiring manager call is discovery, the panel validates, and executive interviews act as procurement and security review. Listen
Andy said the hiring manager is the critical stage because they will ensure the candidate is pulled through the process. He said candidates should think about qualifying out, and that a request for a major case study is a good moment to decide whether to go deeper with a company. He said the candidate should approach the search as figuring out fit, as a sales rep would.
“there's the recruiter call, which is kind of a qualification step.”
Hiring teams notice missing thank-you notes, and that even if a note only matters about half the time, candidates should not take the chance. Listen
Andy said he often sees interviewers slacking each other about whether a candidate sent a thank-you note. He said a note may only matter in about half of cases, but it is not worth taking the risk. He agreed with Josh's suggestion of an individual note to each panel member and compared it to an AE following up after a call with next steps.
“But why not just send an individual email to each person and pick out one comment that they made?”
Candidates should not raise comp early, and should focus on the scope and experience of the role until the hiring side is committed. Listen
Andy said comp will matter, but candidates should wait until the company has fallen in love with them before negotiating. He said that if the company is late stage, its total rewards team will not be far off the market. He said that if the scope is right, the comp will often follow.
“you do not want to negotiate it until they've fallen in love with you.”
The public share of posted roles drops from director to VP to C-level, and said senior roles need to be monitored with scrapers. Listen
Andy said he has a scraper that scrapes LinkedIn and that some candidates can scrape communities they belong to. He said candidates should still monitor for posted roles at every level, but that most senior roles will not appear. He said his company has written a guide on using AI to monitor for roles.
“So I use, I have a scraper that scrapes LinkedIn.”
When a company hires a recruiter, the recruiter typically will not post the role because it would lead to a flood of referral requests inside the company. Listen
Andy said recruiters do not want to be circumvented, and that Whispered trains its members not to go straight to the company for recruited roles. He said that when a senior role is posted, employees get pinged with referral requests and that creates a difficult situation. He said these reasons, along with AI making applications easier, explain why roles are not posted.
“recruiters don't want to be circumvented.”
Candidates are not really competing with each other in Whispered, because each executive's requirements filter roles differently. Listen
Andy said members share roles that do not fit them, so the roles reach someone whose profile matches. He also said that Whispered puts the top two or three candidates for a role in a Slack channel, so candidates can see who they are competing against and learn from people who went through a process.
“We're not really competing against each other, right?”
A candidate who is still in seat should have a direct conversation with their CEO or manager if the relationship allows it, because back channels can create tense situations. Listen
Andy said he hears many stories of a back channel reaching the CEO before the candidate has told them they are looking, which leads to a difficult situation. He said his platform was built so candidates can see the market without having to stick their head up.
“you should have that mature conversation with your CEO or your, your, your manager if you have that relationship.”