[Un]Churned · 4 Mar 2026 · From the week of 2 March
How This Ex-CRO Is Making CS Impossible to Ignore ft. Manish Chawla (PowerSchool)
These are notes on the conversation, checked against its transcript. The episode itself has the full discussion.
In brief
Manish Chawla, Chief Customer Officer at PowerSchool, a K-12 platform he described as serving over 60 million students across 18,000 customers in more than 90 countries, speaks with host Josh Schachter about treating customer success as a commercial function. He covers CSM goals for GRR, expansion and health, how CS fits into the CEO, CRO and CFO revenue equation, cost-to-serve levers, hiring for vertical domain fluency, and PowerSchool's AI approach. His central argument is that CS becomes essential by owning a clear line of sight to retention, expansion and cost to serve, and that operational execution matters more than strategy.
For founders
- PowerSchool gives individual CSMs GRR and expansion targets on their portfolios, plus a health measure, so they are not focused only on the renewal in front of them.
- Manish argues CS should own a part of the revenue, expansion and cost-to-serve equations, because that is how it becomes critical to the company's profit math.
- He says cost to serve should be treated as a constraint to optimise alongside customer experience, not as a standalone cost cut, and names technology, process improvement and a partner ecosystem as his three levers.
- He believes customers will not pay extra for AI and that AI is becoming table stakes, so PowerSchool treats it as a fundamental addition to the portfolio that supports bundling across retention, expansion and new sales.
- He says strategy is a small share of the work, with most time going to execution and constant tuning, and that the customer's belief is the only measure that ultimately matters.
For revenue leaders
- PowerSchool's CSM incentives include a GRR goal set from bottom-up numbers and a top-down allocation of company targets, an expansion goal and a health goal, and a top-three CSM award by attainment that is celebrated at the sales kickoff alongside salespeople.
- Manish frames the CCO's line of sight as gross revenue retention and expansion, in the same way that sales has a direct line of sight to quota attainment.
- He says services teams are organised by practice and also own GRR at PowerSchool, because domain knowledge speeds time to value and gives CSMs partners for adoption problems.
- Manish says that for the CEO, retention is discussed with the CCO, new business with the CRO, and the overall score is kept by the CFO, so CS needs to own part of the retention and expansion math.
- He describes a digital CS and partner model for the long tail of around 18,000 customers, arguing that a one-to-ten CSM ratio would not work at that count.
What was said 19, most useful first
At PowerSchool, individual CSMs carry GRR and expansion targets on their portfolios, plus a health goal. Listen
Manish said a CSM's GRR goal comes from bottom-up numbers plus a top-down allocation of company GRR or attrition goals. Expansion within the portfolio is a second goal, and health, meaning value, usage and customer success, is a third, so CSMs look beyond the upcoming renewal. He also said a lead generation commission was added to these targets.
“So if you have a portfolio of accounts as a CSM, then you have a GRR goal based on, of course, the bottoms up as well as or top down allocation based on the company goals for GRR, or, or attrition.”
Listen to the episode Retention & customer success Link to this Report a problem
A CCO becomes essential by having a direct line of sight to gross revenue retention, and then to expansion. Listen
Manish compared the CCO's line of sight to the sales leader's line of sight to quota attainment, and said the CCO's equivalent is gross revenue retention, followed by expansion. He said account health and the value customers get are the basis for both, so commercial ownership must be connected across AEs and CSMs.
“What's the line of sight to in, in the case of of the chief customer officer, a line of sight to gross revenue retention, right.”
Listen to the episode Metrics & finance Link to this Report a problem
Manish describes a CEO-led revenue conversation in which CS owns the retention part and the CFO keeps score. Listen
He described the CEO turning to the CRO for new business growth and to himself for retention, with the CFO keeping the total score that includes price increases. In this model, CS owns part of the revenue equation, part of the expansion equation and part of the cost-to-serve equation.
“So you have to own that a part of that revenue equation and you have to own a part of the expansion equation and you have to own a part of the best cost to serve equation.”
Listen to the episode Metrics & finance Link to this Report a problem
At Aspen Tech, a partner ecosystem avoided about 150 headcount in 18 months. Listen
Manish said Aspen Tech, a company of around 4,000 employees and $1.2 billion when Emerson acquired it, set up a partner ecosystem that allowed it to avoid 150 headcount in 18 months. He said the company did not skimp on the help, service and advice customers wanted.
“But we avoided 150 headcount by by scaling a partner ecosystem just in 18 months, right, just in 18 months.”
Listen to the episode Retention & customer success Link to this Report a problem
Manish's goal is to use automation and simple use cases to move a CSM from covering 10 accounts to 15 without adding headcount. Listen
Manish said productivity gains come from reducing friction with AI and automation, and from giving CSMs simple use cases such as QBRs and dashboards so they can focus on what matters. He framed taking a CSM from 10 to 15 accounts as the aim, creating more coverage rather than adding headcount.
“How do you have CSM that covers 10 accounts, cover 15 accounts, right.”
Listen to the episode Retention & customer success Link to this Report a problem
Manish's evolving view is that customers will not pay extra for AI, so PowerSchool treats it as table stakes. Listen
He said he does not think customers will pay for additional AI solutions, calling it his evolving opinion, and host Josh Schachter called it a safe bet at this point in time. PowerSchool treats AI as a fundamental addition to the portfolio that enables value bundling across retention, expansion and new sales, and not having it is a disadvantage.
“I don't think customers are going to pay for additional AI solutions.”
PowerSchool recognises top CSMs by attainment at its sales kickoff, with a top-three CSM award on stage alongside salespeople. Listen
Manish said that at the sales kickoff, where top salespeople are celebrated, there is also a top-three CSM award by attainment, so CSMs are seen as qualified for the President's Club in the same way as sales. He described this as a way of making CS visible as a commercial function.
“Then there is a, a top three CSM award by attainment.”
Listen to the episode Sales team, hiring & comp Link to this Report a problem
Measuring CSMs only on NPS is hygiene, not the full picture. Listen
Manish said a CSM measured only on NPS is doing only the hygiene part of the job. He argued CS becomes essential when it can articulate a straight line of sight to top-line or bottom-line results, the way sales has a line of sight to quota.
“And so CSM that measures themselves on NPS is only the hygiene part of the story.”
Listen to the episode Retention & customer success Link to this Report a problem
Strategy is a small part of the work; most of it is execution and constant tuning. Listen
Manish said that if you had 60 minutes, you would spend about 5 on strategy and 55 on execution and constant tuning. He grounded this in his IBM and Aspen Tech experience, and said that the only truth that matters at the end is what the customer believes.
“Strategy is, is, I'll say, if you had 60 minutes, you spend 5 minutes on strategy, 55 minutes on execution and constant tuning.”
Listen to the episode Strategy & market Link to this Report a problem
Services is organised by practice and co-owns GRR at PowerSchool and previously at Aspen Tech. Listen
Manish said services in a multi-product company is organised by practice, and each practice group also owns GRR. He said services provides the product and domain knowledge that speeds time to value for solutions that need more than a login and training, and gives CSMs partners for adoption challenges.
“So services if you sort of visualize from in a multi product company, they'd be organized by practices for the practice. GRR is also owned by that that grouping of people.”
Listen to the episode Retention & customer success Link to this Report a problem
Cost to serve and customer experience should be optimised together, using technology, process improvement and a partner ecosystem. Listen
Manish said cost to serve is one constraint to optimise, with customer experience improving at the same time, not a standalone equation. He named three levers: technology, including AI and automation, process improvement, and an ecosystem of partners.
“So you want cost to serve down and customer experience up. And so you've got to do both at the same time, right.”
Listen to the episode Retention & customer success Link to this Report a problem
A one-to-ten CSM ratio cannot cover a long tail of 18,000 customers, so digital CS is needed. Listen
Manish said that with 18,000 customers, a one-to-ten coverage model clearly does not work, so half the company would need to be CSMs. He described digital CS as the way to reach the long tail, and said agents may later engage mid-market customers.
“So how do you turn, how do you not turn around and say, well, I've got 18,000 customers, one is to 10 ratio.”
Listen to the episode Retention & customer success Link to this Report a problem
PowerSchool's claim to fame in AI is being the system of record, since all the customer data sits with it. Listen
Manish said larger customers ask about cross-enterprise AI solutions from providers such as Google. He said PowerSchool's counter is that all the data sits with it, so it can be more effective with AI.
“Our claim to fame is we are the system of record, right. So all the data sits sits with us. Therefore we can be more effective.”
Customer support is the first place PowerSchool is applying AI internally, with the aim of deflecting how-to questions. Listen
Manish said customer support was the first priority for AI because of the many how-to questions, many coming from smaller districts. He said PowerSchool has already done one version of AI with an existing vendor and is upgrading to Salesforce Lightning and related solutions.
“So how do we deflect more and more of those?”
PowerSchool's CS engineering team crowdsourced AI usage, and a kickoff session on using existing tools was the highest rated. Listen
Manish said the CS engineering team crowdsourced how people were using AI. Of about 15 one-hour kickoff sessions over four weeks, the highest-rated was on using existing tools to make life easier, such as the facilitator feature in Microsoft Teams. He said people can go further, for example by coding an agent.
“One session with the highest rating was the one for how to use existing tools to make make life easier.”
For vertical CS, PowerSchool prioritises hiring tech-savvy educators, and gaps in project management or alignment can be addressed. Listen
Manish said customers want to engage with people who understand their domain and platforms, so domain fluency matters in vertical CS hiring. He said a pure educator who is not tech-friendly is a poor fit, while gaps in project management, alignment or deeper technology understanding can be addressed.
“So, so The Who we hire and but you need a unique, unique capability around a tech savvy educator.”
Listen to the episode Hiring & team building Link to this Report a problem
Designing CS for K-12 means learning the school annual cycle, funding and reporting calendar, not just the product. Listen
Manish said he studies the annual cycle, report cards, assessments and peak periods, along with reporting cycles to the Department of Education that link directly to funding. He said enrollment and attendance drive funding in the US public school system, so solutions need to address those moments.
“So once you start to understand the dynamics of where the money comes from, if you're in in a chemical company, you have to understand what is the order to cash site, right?”
Listen to the episode Retention & customer success Link to this Report a problem
A solution must fit customers of very different sizes, since small districts have far less IT and staff capacity. Listen
Manish said a metropolitan district can invest in its own IT organisation, while a small rural district may have 2,000 to 3,000 students and a system administrator who is also a PE teacher. He said PowerSchool aims to make the whole experience, not just the product, fit purpose for both the largest and the smallest customers.
“So the system administrators could also be APEPE teacher.”
Manish now asks Slack bot for data instead of his team, as a way to free up time. Listen
He said he has become more disciplined and now asks Slack bot for data rather than asking his team to pull it. He said this does not transform the function immediately, but he sees it as a way to create more productivity.
“So I've also become a bit more disciplined rather than ask my team for I have a question. I'd like to see the data for XY and Z, I asked Slack bot.”