Pricing & packaging

Manny says tokens vary by lab and are an internal measure of how LLMs are built. A host noted that two models can do the same task using different numbers of tokens, which Manny agreed with. He says agent builders, unlike the labs, have to show a measure of the value delivered to the customer.

“A token should not be a unit of value for charging because a token is really kind of like the inside secret.”

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Step one is letting the buyer and their finance team see what the agent did, described in normal terms, like the old itemized phone bill where you went straight to the biggest line to check it. Step two is explaining the value, for example that a piece of research would have taken a human a long time, or that the agent produced a PowerPoint or an analysis. ROI comes last and depends on each customer's own equation. He says agents he works with are often failing at the first rung, and that once work is visible a buyer can question how artifacts were used, but cannot dispute that the work was done.

“So explainability is like the first rung in the ladder.”

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Manny argues that seats felt so intuitive that nobody asked what 100 seats actually bought, and vendors answered with usage charts, which he dismisses. Buyers are now asking value questions of agents, which he considers proper. He says agent builders have to show buyers what they get for the agent.

“And the first chart that everyone wanted to show up is usage. And who gives a fuck about usage? Like you want value.”

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Kellie Woodin said product usage data doesn't tell the full story, so CS has to understand the actual time saved. Notion's internal 'custom agent hall of fame' includes a small calculator for what credits are worth. Her example takes hours an agent saves (about 10 a week for her email agent) times an hourly salary rate and compares that with credits that cost under $5 a day. Customers come to Notion for guidance on these calculations across their LLM and Notion credit usage, which she said positions CS as strategic.

“we've been able to include a small calculator of how to understand what the credits are worth.”

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She said customers are anxious about AI bills and have started asking how to lock down credits rather than what value they receive for them. She suggested vendors should show how the bill maps to the value of the work done, and she argued that customers should consider the budget per rep. Mutiny focuses on enterprise sales because she sees the clearest ROI there.

“And so I do think it's important for companies like us to make our own ROI case and make it really clear, how should a customer think about the budget allocation for every single rep?”

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He said this model is not new and that many companies have used it. When a host compared it with buying gas, he replied that with gas the buyer knows exactly what they are getting and can see a meter. He said usage pricing needs clear value, or customers get surprise top-up notifications and friction.

“And so I think that people rushing into consumption based pricing or usage based pricing, this isn't new. Like it's been around for, and there's tons of companies that have done this and they get addicted to this like spike in net retention.”

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Manny says customers have been open to the model. A host called it the cleanest form of outcome-based pricing, and Manny summed it up as 'you grow, I grow'. He later said a take-rate model is one reason he isn't worried about investor questions on growth.

“We take a percentage of revenue, so we always take a take rate.”

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Grant Clarke describes Atlas as an operational framework that combines an AI agent with a renewal rep to manage a renewal book on the client's behalf. The client pays for the outcome, not for the product or the software. Josh Schachter summarizes it as 'give us the keys,' with Atlas acting as the client's renewal managers and Grant calling it an extension of the client's team.

“It does that in a way that we are delivering an outcome so the company pays for the outcome not for the product not for the software.”

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Bret Taylor said the hard part of AI is deploying it successfully, which is partly human and partly technical, so Sierra wants to be accountable for the outcome. He said some clients want to do it themselves, while others need co-innovation, which he described as Sierra's sweet spot. He said the forward-deployed team is called agent development.

“It's why we have outcomes based pricing.”

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Michelle described the model as charging customers based on outcomes, not seats, with no charge if the customer is not happy. She said the company is not focused on profitability right now even though it is profitable, and is going for a market share grab to win customers who want to grow with it.

“We're gonna charge you based on outcomes, not based on seats. If you're not happy, we're not gonna charge you.”

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Diego said Intercom charges for outcomes rather than conversations or seats. He said comp plans, performance reviews and incentives for go-to-market and FDE teams are tied to resolutions and customer outcomes, and that Fin's ARR is related to how much work is done for customers.

“from comp plans to performance reviews to all the incentives that we built around all of our like go to market teams”

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Ann says companies will not buy enterprise licences for software by reference to headcount, such as 500,000 or 200,000 employees. Her proposed alternative is a bundled price with a usage fee layered on top, for example paying 40 cents a query through an MCP.

“Companies will never buy enterprise licenses to anything normally because I've got 500 ,000 employees or I've got 200 ,000 employees.”

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He expects the enduring value of software to remain in regulated industries, using pharmaceuticals as an example, where he does not think companies will vibe code their software. For large mission-critical SaaS companies, he says survival depends on how well they shift what they deliver toward outcomes.

“The per-seat pricing model is dying and will go away.”

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Ghazi says the enterprise side was seat-based and is now evolving to a usage-based model. The platform fee depends on customer size and a small team starts with a smaller credit pool, while more teams committing means more credits. He says the model is easy to roll out and puts no handcuffs on who can use the product.

“you pre buy basically credits that you think you would need for the next 12 months”

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He calls this a contrarian bet and says horizontal products will absorb many verticalized $20-30/month tools; he agrees that much low-end consumer design work Canva served can now be done in OpenAI. He says Higgsfield will never win at $20 a month. Its priority is showing value fast enough to move a $20 subscriber to spending more than $1,000 a year.

“How can we make them to upgrade to over, to spend over $1 ,000 a year with us?”

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Keith said pre-PMF companies need a simple system that collects everything, and they need 'something real' once they find PMF. Lightfield moves quite a few customers from the $2K plan to the $24K plan at that point. He describes the current ideal customer as having about 10 reps and growing toward 30, rather than companies still searching for product-market fit.

“we actually move quite a few people off of our like... 2k per year plan to the 24k one as soon as they hit PMF.”

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Tunguz said there are heavy subsidies today because the company is educating users to bring AI to work. He said model companies charge a company a whole lot more than they can charge individuals and make a bunch more margin. He described the approach as looking at a business, deciding everyone should work a new way after AI, and reinventing the process and software for the customer.

“We charge a company a whole lot more than we can charge individuals and we can make a bunch more margin.”

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Mark Roberge describes Lauren Nemeth's view of PLG pricing. Friction up front stops users from feeling the power of the tool, and monetizing the end user is common but less ideal. The better model is to let end users go hog wild and monetize the business, through IT lockdown or CFO-controlled volume pricing.

“we let the end user really experience the tool and we monetize the enterprise.”

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Jeff Perry said Carta sees around 400 to 500 new companies a month, potentially 600, and launched Carta Launch as a free product for those below the stakeholder and funding thresholds. Companies transition to a paid plan once they convert. He described the aim as getting companies onto the platform and helping them grow.

“we launch a free product called Carta Launch for companies that are less than 25 stakeholders and have raised less than a million dollars just to get them on the platform and help them grow.”

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Mark Roberge says he likes the product-led growth approach of reframing price increases as raising average contract value through expansion, while keeping the opening price low-friction. He describes free as the extreme version, with price expanding as customers see value.

“let's raise average contract value for our customers and let's get there through expansion.”

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Manny frames two boundary conditions: whether the agent did the work without a human (autonomy) and whether the work can be attributed entirely to the agent (attribution). He says outcome pricing is visible in support, inventory management, procurement and accounts payable, where the agent completes the transaction itself. Most other use cases lack real attribution, so pricing sits between effort (a little above token consumption) and output (a produced artifact such as a presentation or email), or a combination of both.

“Attribution is really hard. So this is why true outcome-based pricing is going to take some time.”

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She recalls that at her first tech company the team wanted ROI-based pricing and had better ROI models because of it, but could never actually change the price each year. She says maybe now there is a better way, but she is sceptical anyone is doing it yet. She also says outcome-based pricing is less predictable than seat-based pricing.

“Like the dream was to be able to price based on ROI and we never could do it.”

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Seong says customers like the idea of paying for outcomes rather than tokens, but outcomes differ by industry, maturity, people, process and tools. He says consumption pricing will likely stay for a while because it exposes whether value is being delivered. He calls his view early and says it is only his current view.

“Unfortunately, I think outcomes for customers are going to be wildly different, right?”

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Gilbo says retail deals compete with many other projects, such as a new warehouse, ERP system or store growth, which he can't control. Price is the one factor he can control, so QuickLizard keeps both the annual subscription and implementation cost low to lower the barrier to entry, aiming to be a long-term partner. He says they tightened costs for the first year and for later years.

“I can control pricing. And it's one thing I like to try to bring to the table and try to make a non-factor when I'm in a nice sales cycle with a partner.”

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Aman said that early in Toast's life he did not care about pricing and only needed people using the platform, because usage was fundamental to learning. He said the platform could be made cheaper than competitors if needed. He also argued that revenue growth and usage supported recruiting, fundraising and credibility.

“I don't care about pricing. We just need people using it.”

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Ed said it took Seismic almost a year to win its first paying customer, GE, through an intro to a CIO who had $6,000 left in his budget for the year. He told founders not to overthink pricing and to take the shot. That first contract later grew into a much larger account.

“don't overthink your pricing.”

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Merritt says the engineers who used the product had authority to spend thousands of dollars a month, and that a $50,000 spend could be approved simply because the person needed it and it solved their problem. The team deliberately kept the size of the initial engagement within that authority, so no one had to escalate to a budget holder to get started.

“I used to say you could magic a $50,000 spend.”

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Mark says that while a high opening contract value accelerates short-term revenue and shows willingness to pay, many SaaS businesses reach the end of a year-long contract where the customer has used less than fifty percent of what they bought. He calls that a very challenging renewal conversation and a next-to-impossible expansion conversation. Keeping the opening price low keeps perceived value in line with what the customer pays and leaves room for expansion.

“a customer has used less than fifty percent of what they bought. That is a very challenging customer”

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Kyle says that from the initial pricing perspective, founders should make sure they leave room for expansion down the road. This applies whatever the pricing variable is, such as seats, API calls, consumption or a subscription model.

“From the initial pricing perspective, I think just making sure that you leave room for expansion down the road.”

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In SaaS you sell 100 seats, procurement comes back at renewal saying only 20 are heavily used, and the customer buys 50, killing the add-on you planned to sell and threatening an RFP if you push back. With agents you charge for all the work done. If only two of 100 users are hyper-users, the vendor doesn't care, because those users drive value for the whole organization and the vendor is paid for that value.

“if you've sold 100 seats and only two were hyper-users, you don't care because you're charging for all the uses and all the value those two seats were getting”

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Kellie Woodin said that under seat-based pricing, the best CS could do after a seat contraction was try to win seats back. Under Notion's new usage-based pricing there is 'no ceiling'. A contraction can be offset by building workflows with custom agents that raise credit usage. Her lesson from her first renewals was that they are no longer black and white: she brings in power users and other stakeholders to show what Notion can be beyond a license count.

“previously, if they had some kind of contraction in seats, the best we could do is try to get them back up.”

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Enterprises are currently buying one of each agent, so new-logo acquisition is easy, and many companies took fixed-price deals to grab that money. The problem shows up when they go for expansion revenue on a fixed price. Manny says a sustainable business has to flex with the value it delivers, and a vendor capped by fixed-price contracts won't capture that value; someone else will.

“You know, the enterprises are buying one of each, so new logo is not hard. Expansion is hard.”

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Jacob says contracts with terms such as a four-month notice period or a two-year price period conflict with a pricing calendar. He gives the example that if 50% of revenue is bound in contracts, pushing increases repeatedly makes no sense. Companies should make consistent changes across their contract database to gain flexibility. Mark Stiving adds that renewal time is the moment to change contract terms so you don't get stuck again.

“If we know that 50% of our revenue is bound in contracts, we cannot change them. So we need to get that done before we can have a high implementation rate.”

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He described an incumbent with about $100 million in revenue at a $100,000 ACV, facing two founders offering a similar product for $15,000. He said it would be very difficult for the incumbent to drop its ACV by 70%.

“It would be very difficult for them to drop their ACVs by 70%.”

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He said first movers spend heavily figuring out the product and evangelising the category, and can then raise at a very high valuation. That pressure forces them to maximise revenue per deal rather than optimise price.

“where you can't optimize your price because you just have to maximize the crap out of it to grow into that valuation”

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Sam Jacobs says the difficulty for a company with a good business facing a cheaper AI-driven competitor is that leaders become attached to their revenue figure, whether $10M, $50M or $100M. He says the only way out in the short term is to move toward a worse business, and he frames the competitor as eating the incumbent's margins.

“The hardest part of the innovators dilemma is price. Doing $10 million, $50 million, $100 million. You get emotionally attached to that number.”

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When a host raised CFO concerns about managing budgets and forecasting spend under consumption pricing, Manny called it a totally fair question. He listed caps, limits, wallets and assignments as the mechanisms. He treats this as the second question after showing value.

“There's caps. There is limits. There is wallets. There's assignments.”

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Seats plus a platform fee was easiest to get through procurement, but usage at the edges ranged from 10% to 100,000%. Pure consumption backfired, with customers feeling there was a meter on every button. The seat and platform fee now covers the predictable core: AI CRM, call recorder, transcription, filling out fields, tasks and the data model. Consumption covers work with visible ROI, such as pipeline generation (list building, LinkedIn messages) and AI workflow automations like complex lead scoring.

“It's like going to a store where everything's really expensive, that our customers didn't touch anything.”

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The speaker says outcome-based pricing is marketing fodder right now, and that CFOs want predictability and are wary of credit usage getting out of control. As an example of the issue, they note that Claude Business at $150 a month gives four times less usage than Claude personal at $200 a month. They tie this to the margin challenge AI companies face.

“I want predictability. I am really getting a little skeptical and hesitant about this credit usage because things can get out of control really fast.”

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He says many companies cannot react fast enough to tariff-driven cost changes, especially if they rely on spreadsheets or manual methods. QuickLizard automates the price response when tariff changes come in, so the gain is avoided margin leakage rather than new margin.

“A lot of companies are unable to react to those fast enough. And instead of you know, margin gains, it's really avoiding the margin leakage that's been happening.”

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Rivera's example is an escalation clause that lets a company charge for freight or delivery if fuel prices rise, which he says is filed away after signing and never checked. He says AI can now read contracts to identify which clauses affect pricing, and that these clauses should be monitored continuously because failing to act on them leaves money on the table.

“that if the price of gas goes up to $4 a gallon, you should be able to charge for freight charges or for delivery charges”

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Jean said the subscription is a wrapper that ensures adoption. The CSM reviews telemetry, identifies unused functionality and guides the customer to packages that switch it on. He said Unit4 relaunched the model in January with a simpler structure, more services and a better price point for mid-market customers.

“We co -term that with the software subscription.”

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Jean said Unit4 packaged every professional services, educational, customer success management and enterprise activity into a service catalog. Josh cited 318 activities in the catalog and Jean confirmed the figure. Unit4 does not expect customers to use all of them.

“we've packaged them all up into our service catalog. We don't expect our customer to have them.”

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He described asking large enterprise customers whether they want the standard support included in the subscription or an upgrade. The upgrade adds guarantees such as an SLA and being first in line, and he said customers are generally willing to pay for that when they need help. He presented it as a way to keep the 7% envelope available for proactive work.

“It's somewhere between 5 to 8% of your subscription fee that you spend”

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